C: Welcome to Slingshot25’s Shotcast, a series of bite-sized podcasts that will feel like an expression shot to your brain. I’m Courtney.
J: And I’m Jackie.
C: And something we’ve been thinking about is accountability. Oh, accountability, accountability. I keep, I think I’ve said in the last two weeks, if I had a quarter for some, for every time someone said the word accountability to me, I’d have a lot of money. It’s at the top of people’s minds. We’re going to do a webinar about it soon, or if you’re listening to us delayed, we did one. And we have to question on this day, go find it, right? I bet it’s going to be great. In prepping for that webinar, we asked people, like, what’s your biggest issue with accountability?
C: Oh yeah, we did. We asked that question. Guess what they said?
J: I don’t know. Should we give, let’s, this is the dramatic pause.
C: All of you think, what did everyone say is the problem with accountability? Basically, everyone else.
J: Yeah.
C: I just need other people to do their stuff and I’m having a problem with the fact that they’re not.
C: I mean, not, I mean. Not exclusively, but that’s what I saw. Yeah, I saw a lot. And it’s so, we’re not judging that. It’s so normal. It’s actually how your brain works. Yeah. It’s called something.
J: Well, we have a word for that. A fancy one, actually. Um, it is very much related to this very fancy thing called the fundamental attribution error, which if you, you know, really think about what I’m saying there, we fundamentally attribute mistakes that people make to the wrong thing, which is we assume that when somebody does something that isn’t exactly right.
J: We say, Oh, it’s because they’re somehow a failed person. We attribute it to a characteristic that they have, like they are not good enough. And it turns out that’s just not really what’s going on. It turns out that it’s much more likely to be something in their environment that is causing them to not follow through, to make some sort of mistake.
J: So we just start from this place of, Oh, there’s something wrong with them. You need to fix them. And then we wouldn’t have a problem with accountability around here. And that’s
C: right. And let’s face it. We’re not naive. I did not expect that when we asked that question, we would see responses that said things like, you know, accountability is only an issue here because, you know, Sometimes I get tired.
C: I just don’t really feel like doing what I’m supposed to do. You know, I thought about it, and then I waited till the urge passed, and I just didn’t do my stuff. Like that, that’s just, you know, that’s why we have an accountability problem here. It’s me, everyone. I get bored. I get distracted. Yeah, actually.
J: No one said that.
C: That didn’t come up once as a response in our survey. Weird. Even though it’s probably kind of true. Um, so ironically. that makes accountability possible is what we all do. So Jack, you want to talk a little bit about what really drives accountability when it comes to a leader view of the world?
J: Yeah, I will take the leader side of things because what we do know about accountability is that it is a mutual prospect. Let’s call it a mutual prospect, shall we? That it takes, showing up in a certain way and it takes the individual showing up in a certain way. It’s kind of roughly what we think of like the enforcer and the doer.
J: So leaders who are more, more likely than not kind of in this enforcer seat, um, you know, they’re supposed to show up and make sure accountability is actually happening in the organization. They should, um, you know, create an environment in which it will flourish. You know, so from an enforcer perspective, that’s what they should be doing, which is ensuring that all the things are in place and that people can and will take accountability.
J: And be responsible for the outcomes of their work. That’s what they, that’s what leaders should be doing. That’s their role. Unfortunately, they don’t always do that.
C: Mm-hmm. We talk a lot about how they kill it.
J: Yeah.
C: So, will you say a little bit about that? It’s ironic that it’s like, oh yeah, I tell people what’s expected and I have them get their work done and yet you’re still telling me it’s hard to hold people accountable?
C: Yeah.
J: Because they’re, unbeknownst to them, they’re killing it. That’s right. They do a lot of things, and I’m going to include myself in this. I’ve done it too. You know, we do this as, as leaders in this, uh, formula. We do things that we’re just so desperately trying to get things done and make sure things are getting done that we end up actually doing some things that undermine accountability and make it less likely that people will step up and take responsibility for the outcomes of their work.
J: And one of the biggest ones, we have a whole list of them. So if, um, you haven’t attended the webinar and we’re past the webinar, go back and listen to it or please join us. Um, and we’ll list many more there and we, we can certainly talk even more if you want to reach out to us. But one of the biggest things that leaders do that undermines accountability is, you A thing that we call help is the sunny side of control, meaning that leaders will tell themselves a story that I’m just helping someone by stepping in and doing some of the work or maybe the work isn’t done quite exactly like I want it so I kind of step in and I do a little bit of the work and they tell themselves a story that they’re helping.
J: Um, but the fact of the matter is when leaders step in, others step out. You actually push people away from, um, from staying, you know, fully committed to their work, fully owning that work all the way through to the outcomes.
C: Well, I think that’s a really good transition to, you know, you said it’s mutual, right? So the leaders are doing those things. The employees step out, and now accountability is also lost because every employee when an employee steps out, they’re not taking, they might be taking responsibility, like they’re doing the things, but they’re not doing with their whole heart. They’re not doing it with a purpose.
C: They’re not attached to the mission. The analogy that comes to mind for me is like the difference between a gumball machine. The gumball machine to me feels like responsibility, like just put the quarter in, turn the crank, whatever comes out is fine, don’t really care, don’t feel like I affect change, don’t put too much into it because I’m just going to get something out and so I just keep turning the crank, being responsible, collecting my paycheck.
C: The claw machine, that feels like accountability, right? When you go to a claw machine, you’re invested, like whatever the thing is, like everyone do the minion thing, right? You want that. You are. You’re gonna put quarters in if you’re really committed to, you know, I just had a friend say, you know I paid 40 for a stuffed animal like you’re just gonna keep putting it in until you get the thing out and it You’re going to run out a few times.
C: You’re going to fail. It might not work and you’re still in it. That’s accountability, right? There’s a consequence there. You are going to, even though you didn’t get what you needed from your leader, even though you don’t always have the tools and resources, you keep [00:07:00] at it in a way because you’re staying connected to purpose.
C: You’re staying connected to something bigger than yourself. You want more and you stay in the game that way. That’s accountability. That, that feels different than a gumball machine, doesn’t it? I love
J: it. And, um, I haven’t looked at a gumball machine lately, Courtney, but is it still really just a quarter? I have a feeling.
J: Oh gosh, probably not. Like, if I go out there and find a gumball machine, it’s going to be something like 40. Do you think it takes Apple Pay?
C: Like, I don’t know if machines work. Someone tell us. Send us an email. Oh, my goodness. Well, you know what? Since I don’t even know how to use Apple Pay, I’m going to say that’s all for this episode of our Shotcast.
C: But we always have much more to say. If you want more, drop us a line at Slingshot25.com. Until next time.