J: Welcome to Slingshot25 Shotcast, a series of bite-sized podcasts that will feel like an espresso shot to your brain. I’m Jackie.
C: And I’m Courtney
J: Something that we’ve been thinking about is being right versus getting it right. Now, this is a topic that comes up for us with some amount of frequency. Would you agree, Courtney?
C: Yeah, it comes up a lot in coaching.
J: Yeah, we see it a lot there. And it’s got a lot of moving parts to it, so we’re gonna see if we can tackle this.
C: It, this is a, this is a compli- like, this is gonna be an interesting discussion. This is a complex idea that we’re gonna unpack today.
J: It is. So where should we start?
C: Well, let’s start with what’s right is right, and why people like to be right. Uh-huh. I, I wanna start with that, ’cause I really like being right, and then you can do the rest of it. Um, So it’s interesting, right? Because- as human beings, we actually love being right. Like in a game show, we get a reward for that. It’s fun to solve problems. It’s fun to know stuff. It’s actually very rewarding to get the right answer. That’s why people solve crosswor- crossword puzzles and get all excited when they’re done, right? It’s just, there’s a lot of reward in finding the right answer, being smart, and being valuable. And there’s nothing wrong with that, right?
J: I mean, we all check our stats on Wordle, don’t we?
C: Oh, yours are way better than mine, so I don’t look at them beside you, but okay.
J: I mean, I don’t know how many times it’s taken me all the way to the end, but- … I like to get it by number three. That’s my goal. Three.
C: ‘Cause you like to be right.
J: Yes, I do like to be right.
C: Well, well done. Well, really, really nice demonstration of the ego- … at play in this.
J: Yeah, and that’s a big part of this, right? It’s just, it’s, it’s about ego, and I would add that our workplaces, um, you know, they’re, they’re, uh, I, and I’m gonna… I know this is gonna be a shock to our listeners, but they’re pretty competitive workplaces. They are and we’re competitive not just in the marketplaces in which we serve, which, you know, that’s, that’s great, but there’s also a lot of competition within organizations of I greater than you. Um, you know, we’re all trying to… Many of us in organizations are trying to hustle our way to the top of an organization and get promotions and all these things.
C: And the people that win in the hustle, right, they’re not doing that because they got it all wrong.
J: Right.
C: That doesn’t play out very well.
J: That’s right. Yeah, and unfortunately, I mean, it, it, it’s, it may very well be that people work their way to the top who are really good at dealing with failures, you know in all fairness, that’s a really good skill to have, and I think organizations generally, um, reward that, people who, you know, have, um, a, a healthy relationship with failure and know how to deal with it. But let’s face it, there’s a lot of organizations that don’t, uh, reward, and, and, uh, people who are good at, at failing essentially.
Yeah. So it’s gonna be pretty competitive. I think this is the moral of the story that we’re trying to say there. The other thing that comes up for me is that when we say, um, we want you to get it right versus always being right, is, um, there’s different kinds of rightness, if you will. And as I was thinking about this, I was thinking about the, um, the scientists from way back, I’m talking like 16th century, um, Copernicus, who was the guy who told us that the, the Earth traveled around the sun rather than the other way around.
And anyone who has studied this in, you know, fifth grade, you know, history probably learned that, you know, uh, Copernicus’s, uh, society wasn’t really ready to hear that and, and, and he pretty much died with no one believing him. Um, but his kind of right, ’cause of course he was right, and he had observable evidence, but of course he was living in a time where people were sort of even just blown away with the science of things, and, um, we’re not really talking about that kind of right.
Um, there is observable, scientific, evidenced kinds of rightness, um, that you can point to. Um, and so we don’t e- ever expect people to set down that kind of right. But even there, I mean, if we just look at Copernicus, he was unable to really convince others of his, his findings because he… I don’t really know.
I, actually I shouldn’t… I’m gonna be talking out of school here. I don’t know really how he handled that truth back in the day. Um, but clearly he was not able to bring people around to his way of seeing the world. Um, so he-
C: Literally seeing.
J: Literally. Yes. So maybe there was some lack of influence and empathy for people who were probably not ready for his discovery. So even there, our statement of being right versus getting it right, uh, sort of holds. Um, but we just also wanna be really clear, y- we’re not asking people to set down real core, uh, you know, evidence-based truth. That’s not what this is about. We’re talking more about a different kind of right, which is the kind of right of decisions and ideas, and we should go that direction. There are multiple possibilities here, but I’m gonna make a call. Yeah. And I’m gonna say, “I’m right. I think I’ve got the right answer here, so let’s go.”
C: And there’s so much a part of that that is- getting it right is about, and we’re gonna actually do another podcast and unpack this one even more, but a big part of getting it right is alignment, agreement, input from others. And it’s not forever, right? Like, you don’t have to… It’s not endless forever, being a doormat, taking input. So where do you find that line? That’s a hard part of being a leader. We’ll talk about that more in another episode. Um, I wanna take one other comment on what’s right and what’s not, and what makes that hard on the science side.
Because even things that were evidence-based before, that we could say, “Oh, this is true,” the way AI is manipulating the world, the way, you know, different channels of information are being manipulated, there just isn’t a source of truth sometimes that any three people agree on. Yeah. And I think this whole idea of, as a leader, people look to you for truth and answers, and so there is no right. Getting it right is the only way. Getting it right by having discussions, talking to people, hearing different perspectives- that’s the only way to get there, because you don’t even know what people think is true.
J: Yeah. That’s right. Um, I don’t know about you, but, you know, my AI tools, um, think I’m always right.
C: Mm-hmm. And it’s-
J: Well, they are. They’re- Well, I love them …
C: studied it. They’re very sycophantic.
J: I know. That’s why I love them. I hope they never change them. I love them that way. I need that, you know, ’cause I work with you all day. So I need someone- Arguing with you … who agrees with me. Disagreeing with you. I’m sorry. Um, you’re absolutely right.
C: So the cautions- say it again louder.
J: The cautions to leaders who are needing to navigate, uh, forward in a space where they don’t want to just be a tyrant and authoritative, because I said so, which, I think we can all agree that that is just not a very successful way to lead, and you’re gonna run into trouble right away. Um, how to find, you know, some sort of nuanced space, some sort of space that works for you between being, uh, because I said so and I’m right on one end of the spectrum, and a complete doormat and, you know, dithering forever and endlessly on the other side of the spectrum, is to learn those skills of influence, of all the things you were talking about, alignment and agreement and listening and empathy and all of that.
How do you, how do you use those skills and be comfortable with maybe? Mm. Be comfortable with, “This might not work”? And frankly, I think that’s a leadership duty to do that. Yeah. To sometimes make the hard decisions and stand on them, um, but do it in a way that acknowledges others, like Copernicus maybe acknowledging his, his fellow citizens’ fear of the idea that the Earth was actually moving and not the sun.
Um, so I think it’s, it’s those, uh, the… Learning those sorts of skills that you can use less authority and more influence to be, to be a successful leader.
C: Love it.
J: Anything to add to that, Courtney?
C: Just it’s fun to win.
J: Yeah.
C: It’s fun to win. Just notice if you need to win- and what that does to your behaviors and your choices.
J: I think we’ll end it there. I think that’s a good self-reflection. So that’s all for this episode of our Shotcast, but we always have much more to say. And if you want more, you can drop us a line at slingshot25.com. Until next time.
